Jared Diamond, the author of Guns Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies, invites Elizabeth into his Los Angeles home where he shares the books that have shaped his life. He speaks about Walden by Henry David Thoreau, If This is a Man by Primo Levi, Sherlock Holmes by Arthur Conan Doyle, and other books that reflect his adventures in New Guinea. They also discuss his latest book, Upheaval: Turning Points for Nations in Crisis and why he remains optimistic for the future.
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Jared Diamond, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Guns, Germs, and Steel, talks with Elizabeth about learning to read at three from a children's history book, the classic that nearly drove him out of science, why New Guinea makes the rest of the world boring, an organ recital that changed his life overnight, and the lessons of his new book, Upheaval.
Books in this episode
“pay attention to what really is important”
“What I took as the message of Walden is pay attention to what really is important in life and don't be seduced or misled by what other people consider important.”
On what Walden taught him, at 4:57
“My life was transformed”
“That was one of the three overnight experiences of my life, comparable to falling in love for the first time, where within one day my life was transformed.”
On hearing Bach at an organ recital in Cambridge, at 14:38
“The rest of the world is boring”
“New Guinea is intense. And once you've been to New Guinea and once I've been to New Guinea, the rest of the world is boring.”
On why he keeps going back to New Guinea, at 7:09
The books he recommends
In his own words, with notes on each book.
Kings and Things
H. E. Marshall
A children's book of English history by H. E. Marshall. Diamond's mother, a schoolteacher, used it to teach him to read when he was three, and he still has his copy.
Why Jared Diamond picked it
“Mom taught me to read. And my first book was this book, Kings and Things, a child's book of English history. I still have the book.”at 2:55
“my father posted on the wall of my bedroom two maps. There was the map of the European theater and the map of the Pacific theater. Every day, Dad would shift the pins to show the movement of the maps. And so, I grew up with geography and history in my face.”at 3:29
Why this book is great
Kings and Things introduces young children to English history through the kings and queens who ruled the country. H. E. Marshall was a Scottish writer best known for Our Island Story, and she wrote history for children as a string of stories rather than a list of dates.
- It treats history as storytelling, which is how many readers of Diamond's generation first met the past.
- It was written for children who are just learning to read, so it is short, simple and direct.
- It is a window into how history was taught to children in the first half of the twentieth century.
Written by AI from published information about the book, not from the episode. Reviewed by the show before publishing.
Goodreads rating 4.34 from 35 ratings
Walden
Henry David Thoreau
Henry David Thoreau's account of the two years he spent living in a cabin he built near Walden Pond in Massachusetts. Diamond read it three times, and the last reading, as a struggling graduate student, nearly made him quit science.
Why Jared Diamond picked it
“I say for the last time because this was a book that shook me up and upset me more than any other book in my life.”at 4:44
“I was a graduate student in England pursuing a career in science and the research was not going well … And it was upsetting and almost drove me out of science.”at 5:10
“Do what you want and to hell with what other people think.”at 5:57
Why this book is great
In 1845 Thoreau moved into a small cabin he built himself on land near Walden Pond, outside Concord, Massachusetts, and lived there for about two years. Walden is his record of that experiment in simple living, moving through the seasons and mixing close observation of nature with arguments about work, money and how to spend a life.
- It asks a question that never goes out of date: what do you actually need, and what are you doing just because others expect it?
- Thoreau's sentences are compact and quotable, and many of them have become part of everyday American speech.
- It has shaped generations of writers, naturalists and conservationists, and it remains one of the founding books of American nature writing.
Written by AI from published information about the book, not from the episode. Reviewed by the show before publishing.
Goodreads rating 3.77 from 209,233 ratings
First Contact
Bob Connolly and Robin Anderson
Two Australian filmmakers, Bob Connolly and Robin Anderson, tracked down the New Guinea Highlanders who first met outsiders in the early 1930s and recorded their memories 50 years later. It comes up as Diamond explains what draws him back to New Guinea.
Why Jared Diamond picked it
“And eventually when I went there in 1964, New Guinea was still the last unknown. There were still lots of uncontacted people who had had no contact with the outside world. And some of my New Guinea friends were still making stone tools before I met them.”at 6:27
“The Highlanders, a million people who did not know about an outside world, the Highlanders who were contacted by the Leahy brothers.”at 7:32
Why this book is great
In the early 1930s, Australian gold prospectors led by the Leahy brothers walked into the New Guinea Highlands and found a large population that had been cut off from the outside world. First Contact tells that story from both sides, using the prospectors' own photographs and film and the recollections of Highlanders who remembered the strangers' arrival.
- It gives the Highlanders' side of first contact in their own words, which is rare in accounts of colonial exploration.
- It grew out of the authors' documentary film of the same name, and the photographs and footage the prospectors took make the encounter vivid.
- It is a useful companion to Diamond's own books, which return again and again to New Guinea.
Written by AI from published information about the book, not from the episode. Reviewed by the show before publishing.
Goodreads rating 4.08 from 61 ratings
The Complete Sherlock Holmes
Arthur Conan Doyle
Arthur Conan Doyle's four novels and many short stories about the detective Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson. Diamond read them first in high school, read them aloud to his sons, and rereads them every five or ten years.
Why Jared Diamond picked it
“Sherlock Holmes I read for the first time in high school. I read Sherlock Holmes to my sons. I reread Sherlock Holmes about every five or ten years.”at 10:53
“Oh, the detail and the intensity and the insights.”at 11:10
“But as they say, he didn't die at Reichenbach Falls. He was never the same man after that. The best Sherlock Holmes stories were before Reichenbach Falls.”at 11:37
Why this book is great
Sherlock Holmes, the consulting detective of 221B Baker Street, solves crimes in Victorian London by noticing what everyone else overlooks, with his friend Dr. Watson telling the stories. Conan Doyle tried to end the series by sending Holmes over the Reichenbach Falls, then brought him back after readers demanded more.
- Holmes's method of close observation and reasoning shaped the detective story as we know it.
- The friendship between Holmes and Watson gives the stories their warmth, and it is a big part of why readers return to them.
- The stories are short and self-contained, which makes them good for reading aloud and easy to reread.
Written by AI from published information about the book, not from the episode. Reviewed by the show before publishing.
Goodreads rating 4.51 from 220,961 ratings
J.S. Bach
Albert Schweitzer
Albert Schweitzer's study of Johann Sebastian Bach, his life and his music. Diamond says it changed his life: it led him to an organ recital in Cambridge that made him start teaching himself the organ the next day.
Why Jared Diamond picked it
“This book, this is another book that changed my life. I love the music of Bach.”at 13:03
“Schweitzer was the first person to realize that Bach did not write absolute music.”at 13:23
“Overnight, I decided I was going to learn to play the organ. The next day, I began to teach myself an organ. During my remaining half-year in Cambridge, I spent up to eight hours a day playing the organ.”at 15:04
Why this book is great
Before he became famous as a doctor in Africa, Albert Schweitzer was a theologian and a serious organist, and he wrote this book about Bach early in his career. He argues that Bach's music is closely tied to the words it sets, using recurring musical figures to express the images and feelings of the text.
- It changed how many musicians listen to Bach, by showing how the music can illustrate the words of a cantata or chorale.
- It is written by a performer, so it mixes biography and ideas with practical thinking about how Bach should be played.
- Schweitzer's own range, as organist, theologian and physician, gives the book an unusual depth.
Written by AI from published information about the book, not from the episode. Reviewed by the show before publishing.
Goodreads rating 4.15 from 81 ratings
If This Is a Man
Primo Levi
Primo Levi's account of the months he spent as a prisoner in Auschwitz. Diamond, who does all his leisure reading in Italian, has read it about six times. It is personal to him: his wife Marie's mother was in Auschwitz.
Why Jared Diamond picked it
“My wife's mother was in Auschwitz. Marie and I both visited Auschwitz. So, it's a book that means something to me.”at 15:40
“It's a seemingly matter-of-fact account about Auschwitz. … But the matter-of-factness of it, without moral reflections, gives it its power.”at 16:17
“I must have read it six times.”at 16:32
Why this book is great
Primo Levi was a young Jewish chemist from Turin who was arrested in 1943 and deported to Auschwitz, where he survived until the camp was liberated. If This Is a Man describes daily life in the camp: the hunger, the work, the rules and the ways prisoners tried to stay human. It was later published in the United States as Survival in Auschwitz.
- Levi writes with a scientist's precision and restraint, and that calm makes what he describes harder to forget.
- It looks closely at how people behave under extreme pressure, without turning anyone into a simple hero or villain.
- It is widely regarded as one of the most important books written about the Holocaust.
Written by AI from published information about the book, not from the episode. Reviewed by the show before publishing.
Goodreads rating 4.35 from 91,183 ratings
Upheaval
Jared Diamond
Diamond's new book at the time of recording, Upheaval: Turning Points for Nations in Crisis. It looks at seven countries that came through national crises, from the Soviet invasion of Finland to Pinochet's Chile, and asks what the United States can learn from them.
Jared Diamond on his book
“So, the lessons seem so obvious, they seem so banal, but they're worth restating because so many countries have failed to pay attention to the most banal things. The most banal things include being honest with oneself.”at 17:33
“Science is nothing more than understanding the world as it really is. And to deny science is to deny reality.”at 18:15
“The only agents who can end democracy in the United States are we Americans.”at 18:32
Why this book is great
Upheaval compares how nations respond to crises with how individuals get through personal ones. Diamond draws on factors from crisis therapy, such as honest self-appraisal and accepting responsibility, and applies them to countries including Finland, Japan, Chile, Indonesia, Germany and Australia, before turning to the United States and the world.
- Its framework is simple and memorable: the things that help a person survive a crisis turn out to help a country too.
- It is a personal book, drawing on countries where Diamond has lived or has close friends and speaks the language.
- It brings together history, geography and current politics in the wide-ranging style of Guns, Germs, and Steel.
Written by AI from published information about the book, not from the episode. Reviewed by the show before publishing.
Goodreads rating 3.90 from 12,017 ratings
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